Post by HCG on Jul 19, 2009 20:21:45 GMT 3
Dear to the wife of Christ.
The Scriptures seem to suggest that there are those “chosen”, “ordained”, and “elected” to be saved.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
I heard in the recorded sharing that these verses above pertain to the Jews, and not to the Gentiles. Is this correct? This is my first question.
Now, how about this verse below from Acts 13. This verse clearly illustrate that “as many as were ordained to eternal life believed”.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
According to the verse above, there are those “ordained” by God to eternal life, and they were the ones that believed. And if God ordained people, there has to be a specific number from the beginning, not just a random figure. We cannot simply say that anyone who accepts is just a random number. What does “ordain” mean? Maybe, I need to know what “ordain” means. Doesn’t it mean “appointed”?
So, is my understanding correct on this? Please share on this.
Now, let’s take a look at the following verses in the book of Romans.
Romans 9
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
These verses from Romans Chapter 9 seem to imply that God, as the potter, has formed vessels to honor, and has formed vessels to dishonor.
So, God has to come up with a specific number of vessels [people] formed unto honor, and has formed a specific number of vessels to dishonor. There has to be a number, right? Not, just a random count, because God is the potter. He gets to decided who are the vessels of honor, and who are the vessels of dishonor.
This next verse from the book of Jude seems to state that even the unrighteous were also ordained unto condemnation.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, if salvation was and is being offered to “everybody” who is willing to accept Him, then, papaano natin ma iintindihan ang mga verses na binasa natin patungkol sa ordination at pre-determination ng Diyos?
If the gospel is indeed open to everyone, as it’s stated in John 3:16, “whosoever”, then, essentially, salvation is based on human choice.
So, naka salalay ang kaligtasan ng tao sa kanyang sarili, kung siya ay tatanggap o hindi.
Is this my correct understanding of this?
I thought that God purposed and ordained and pre-determined His children to be born in each church age. That was my understanding because of these other verses that seem to suggest the fore-ordination and pre-determination of God.
Just like the Samaritan woman at the well. When the gospel light shined upon her, there was a quickening. She knew that the Christ stood before her.
How about the prophet Jeremiah.
JEREMIAH 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Similarly, God has to pre-decide the number of His sons and daughters to be born in each church age because God know and has decided the number of His children, right? Tama ba ito?
As we have shared before, we cannot add our names to be saved by our own way. We are either sheeps from the beginning, or goats from the start. A goat cannot be a sheep, and neither a sheep can be a goat.
Bro. Branham once quoted that you can put on a tuxedo on a pig, but he is still a pig. Why? It’s because he was born a pig. He was born that way from the beginning. So, being born as a pig has to be decided and purposed by God, and not by a pig.
For example, I did not have a choice that I was born as a Filipino. I did not have anything to do with who I am as a race, but God was the one that decided for me, to be born as a Filipino.
I guess I have so many questions. I don’t mean to ask so many things, but I just want to ensure that I got it right so that I can share the truth to my family. That is my intention and desire, to know the truth and to share to truth to my family.
Please send our Christian greetings to the “wife” of Christ there at Doha.
Bro. Mario Paman
The Scriptures seem to suggest that there are those “chosen”, “ordained”, and “elected” to be saved.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
I heard in the recorded sharing that these verses above pertain to the Jews, and not to the Gentiles. Is this correct? This is my first question.
Now, how about this verse below from Acts 13. This verse clearly illustrate that “as many as were ordained to eternal life believed”.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
According to the verse above, there are those “ordained” by God to eternal life, and they were the ones that believed. And if God ordained people, there has to be a specific number from the beginning, not just a random figure. We cannot simply say that anyone who accepts is just a random number. What does “ordain” mean? Maybe, I need to know what “ordain” means. Doesn’t it mean “appointed”?
So, is my understanding correct on this? Please share on this.
Now, let’s take a look at the following verses in the book of Romans.
Romans 9
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
These verses from Romans Chapter 9 seem to imply that God, as the potter, has formed vessels to honor, and has formed vessels to dishonor.
So, God has to come up with a specific number of vessels [people] formed unto honor, and has formed a specific number of vessels to dishonor. There has to be a number, right? Not, just a random count, because God is the potter. He gets to decided who are the vessels of honor, and who are the vessels of dishonor.
This next verse from the book of Jude seems to state that even the unrighteous were also ordained unto condemnation.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, if salvation was and is being offered to “everybody” who is willing to accept Him, then, papaano natin ma iintindihan ang mga verses na binasa natin patungkol sa ordination at pre-determination ng Diyos?
If the gospel is indeed open to everyone, as it’s stated in John 3:16, “whosoever”, then, essentially, salvation is based on human choice.
So, naka salalay ang kaligtasan ng tao sa kanyang sarili, kung siya ay tatanggap o hindi.
Is this my correct understanding of this?
I thought that God purposed and ordained and pre-determined His children to be born in each church age. That was my understanding because of these other verses that seem to suggest the fore-ordination and pre-determination of God.
Just like the Samaritan woman at the well. When the gospel light shined upon her, there was a quickening. She knew that the Christ stood before her.
How about the prophet Jeremiah.
JEREMIAH 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Similarly, God has to pre-decide the number of His sons and daughters to be born in each church age because God know and has decided the number of His children, right? Tama ba ito?
As we have shared before, we cannot add our names to be saved by our own way. We are either sheeps from the beginning, or goats from the start. A goat cannot be a sheep, and neither a sheep can be a goat.
Bro. Branham once quoted that you can put on a tuxedo on a pig, but he is still a pig. Why? It’s because he was born a pig. He was born that way from the beginning. So, being born as a pig has to be decided and purposed by God, and not by a pig.
For example, I did not have a choice that I was born as a Filipino. I did not have anything to do with who I am as a race, but God was the one that decided for me, to be born as a Filipino.
I guess I have so many questions. I don’t mean to ask so many things, but I just want to ensure that I got it right so that I can share the truth to my family. That is my intention and desire, to know the truth and to share to truth to my family.
Please send our Christian greetings to the “wife” of Christ there at Doha.
Bro. Mario Paman